that reducing drug related violence opposed to drug dealing, but an evaluation would demonstrate maybe that there is absolutely a justification and a real causal connection with arresting drug dealers and reducing drug related violence or reducing drus use which is the harmful cause as you mentioned to the community, so i am suggesting since the disparities exist and they're stark in san francisco it's worth creating an evaluation to really look at the policies to make sure they're as effective as we want them to be. >> chief, sir. your data stops at 2009. >> yes. >> so it is 2013. >> yes. >> i don't want anybody in this room to leave or on television to leave -- you said several times "current trends". what if i told you in 2012 arrests were down 45% of juveniles in san

from where they did your sale. >> juvenile drug -- >> in general. the guidance center is at a all time low. the model you speak of is the restorative justice model. the alternatives to incarceration with emphasis with juveniles is the law of the land in san francisco. when this study was done i wasn't in the police department. i was in homeland security. i can tell you the current trend and 2,000 juveniles arrested and for this year -- maybe my chart doesn't go back enough. we were under 2,000 physical arrests of juveniles and in favors of alternatives to incarceration. this is the model we used. i was at bay view and this is exactly what we did and achieved reduction in homicides and the

emphasis wasn't on narcotics and incarceration and as thorough the study is there is someone wiser that says bad data gives you bad information. in that time we adding mit our data is mad. our data is much bmplt i invite you to do a survey work with the youth guidance center and the probation department to come up with a new survey to suggest how far we have come rather than suggest that you did very well and passionately that we're in the middle of a current trend that actually ended what is now four years ago. >> right absolutely so let me be clear we are using data from 2009 because that was the most recent data publicly accessible to us. 2010 there was a severe glitch in the classification data system with the police department and we weren't able to use that data and of course

now that you upgraded our ssz this is the poverty opportunity to do a new evaluation how far we have come and whether the racial disparities still exist or not and how effective we have been and absolutely that's what we are recommending and i would love access to that data to do that analysis. >> we are happy to work with you. >> great. >> commissioner. >> yes. i just had one question and i want -- since you're doing this going forward because going forward is what i am interested in. the question i have is when you do your proportionsate analysis and you say there are 7% african-american residents in san francisco and a certain percentage of arrest rates are you used data of who is arrested based on who is a resident of san francisco? do you have access to that data? >> the arrest data includes san francisco residents and people coming into san francisco and

arrested while in san francisco. >> okay. so it includes people who are not residents so the proportionsate rates are include people not living in san francisco the surrounding county. you might want to look at that. >> if the data is available we would. >> seems like there are thoughts on that. we are interested in data driven policy but it has to be accurate doe i think that a carve out that will make a difference. >> i will add as a former officer working drug cases arrests happened in the tenderloin and the bart crowd and thought there was lenientacy there and it was an open market and not controlled by a gang. gang controls areas but not the tenderloin and look at those statistics so they're accurate.

i don't mean to interrupt but i was a drug prosecutor for a good portion of my clear all the way to the federal level. like commissioner turman we were attorneys and i looked at it from top to bottom and when you do a wire tap you hit pay dirt when you need the interpreter and most of the drugs are from overseas and you see the trickle down and there is a correlation between drug dealing and violence. that is based on being a state prosecutor. there is a statistic i would like to find and we did project safe neighborhood. along with professor from the kennedy school at harvard university and what are we going to do to stop the homicides, particularly in the african-american community and we would bleed with each

one of them and 85% of them had felony vkzs and narcotics related so when you do your study look at other factors. you heard from commissioner turman about education. some of the numbers are god awful and the schools have improved so it's a much bigger picture than saying these are disproportionate. statistics, you have to be careful with them. i had a federal judge tell me and guy had 2-kilos of cocaine and it's a victimless crime and go into an area and tell the family that, and the person that over doses and the cost on society and look at it from a statistical perspective and i love what jjcj is doing. you're young and interested in the community and don't lose

that and let's get the statistics tighter. and i prosecuted homicides and every one of them was drug related. >> again i mean i absolutely agree with everything that you said. that's why i was recommending a broader health. approach and the police department is involved in that solution and with the agency departments. i agree with having good data to work with and i'm glad the department is addressing that now and i am happy to provide a supplemental brief on the issues if i can get the data. >> i appreciate the work. commissioner kingly. >> thank you for presenting this evening. obviously it brought a lot of passion and emotion to this discussion. going forward

too i would be interested in seeing statistics that compare the data that you've collected and compared in san francisco to comparable cities in the united states to san francisco, and not just a straight across statistical analysis, but taking into account the differences in socioeconomic statistics, and the proportion of racial break down in those comparable cities. again to get a more full picture as my colleagues have indicated but thank you for presenting this evening. >> commissioner chan. >> i just wanted to wrap this up and thank the chief for this as part of the report and the commission to hear the report.

maybe i should have explained it this way with the context but i appreciate the patience. this report was put out in 2012 and it's been a while and about san francisco arrest stats i wanted us as a commission to hear the information and provide feedback as we have done tonight. to my understanding they held a long hearing on this issue and the chief was in attendance. >> it was a joint hearing with the police commission. >> there was a specific meeting about this specific report that was last year. human rights commission had a meeting on the human impact of drugs. >> and i was there. >> you were there, yes. >> because that is happening and another commission and affects our work that's i didn't wanted us to look at this report and give the chief a chance to respond and make the points you

have made and thank you for that and i think the broader context as this relates -- you probably might have heard about this and i want to under score it. there is a professor michelle alexander and aclu attorney and "new jim crow" book and talked about the issues as it relates to drug issues and how that's a civil rights concern and that book has taken off and inspired a lot of people and lead to the human rights commission's hearing that happened and i think as a commission we should definitely as uncomfortable and difficult this topic is we're not shying away from looking at it. we might have a different analysis but it's important to take that time so thank you. >> i want to be careful. our officers in san francisco are diverse. it's one of the most diverse in the country. we

have training and occ does a mag 95-cent job looking at that and. >> >> making sure things are race thought ral and you have to be. >> >> careful when you throw things out there and our officers are the best in the business. i was speaking to officer monroe and the guy said -- >> he did that in the context of his work. >> his work. >> i got your back inspector. >> he made that distinction many times. >> right. >> put him out there in a muni uniform to buy them. we have to be careful and i love the work you're doing and work with us and don't lose that concern for the community. dr. marshall. >> well, let me begin by saying i'm not a fan of drug users at all, at all, at all, and i don't think anybody who knows me

knows that. a lot of pain, a lot of heartache and i really don't take any excuse. with that being said this report seems to say -- the questions being raised that there were more arrests of african-americans for drug sales as compared to other jurisdictions. it's a legitimate question to ask why. i think the next step -- it's a little clouded to me by the data collection thing anyway because it seems like we have data issues we have been wrestling with. with that notwithstanding the immediate thing to do see if the same disparities still exist. i think that would certainly be the next step, and then you could -- well, yeah. i think that's the main thing.

if you get the numbers for the last four years would they be in fact similar or the same? i'm very familiar with michelle alexander and the book and i don't know there is not a tenderloin in every city and probably have a huge problem with that. folks come from everywhere to sell drugs here and i know who they are personally. that notwithstanding it's a fair question to raise. i also know that working in the community people request and call and say -- and they're not thinking about studies or anything else. they're thinking "get the drug dealers off my block" and it's all in the pot here but it's a fair question to see if the numbers in the recent past are the same as the numbers that

you have shown in this study. i think we can all agree on that. >> thank you very much. chief -- >> i just want to close with because i see a couple of my bay view cops in the corner. arrests are down 45% with juveniles. we spent as much time -- they're shaking their heads, coaching kids in schools, getting them jobs and putting some dangerous kids in jail but it reduced the homicide rate dramatically and they do a great job. >> just to add i mean this is one reason [inaudible] why people say legalize drugs and take the criminality out of it bike prohibition. we're not there yet. we have to operate in those confines so let's see

more data of recent trends. bring it up again. thank you. [applause] >> line item 3b. >> line item 3b. occ director report, discussion, review of recent activities. >> good evening director hicks. >> good evening commissioners. i recently returned from a mid-winter board meeting for the national association of law enforcement and we finalized plans for the annual training conference held in salt lake city from september 22 through september 26. the subject matter of the session will serve to enhance our attendee's knowledge of policing and civilian oversight of law enforcement. our attendees come from a broad range of backgrounds including community members and we recently started

a scholarship program so that more community members could attend our conferences but also commissioners, boards and commissions that do police oversight, attorneys, investigators, policy analysts and law enforcement of course. some of the topics included in this september's conference will include fair and impartial policing, mediations, and occ's policy analyst attorney sandra mirrion will be involved in a training session on policy issues and how that impacts policing. also interviewing techniques and police interactions with immigrant communities so there is a broad range upon topics covered for our attendees. this month occ's outreach activities included attorney sandra marian's

participation in a consortium meeting where she described the occ's work and the language access work that we do with the police department. in the area of mediations january has been a busy month for the occ. we conducted five so far. next week i will provide the commission with three reports, the december comprehensive statistical report, the occ 2013 community out reach strategic plan and the occ 2012 audit of the department san francisco police department investigation of activities pursuant to the general order which was discussed this evening. next tuesday i will be attending a community forum held by bart office of the independent monitor describing what they do, and that will be january 29

from 6 to 7:30 p.m. at the san francisco main library. and that concludes my report. >> thank you director hicks. i want to let everyone know she has several reports for next week so we will get more comprehensive reports on the issues and thank you again for putting things together for the conference. we're actually taking a lead in civilian agencies that conduct misconduct by officers and train the officers and dealing with immigrant communities and you're at the forefront of that. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> [inaudible] more stats. please call line item 3d. 3c. >> 3c commission reports, discussion, commissioners report. >> i have nothing to report this evening but i really want to hear from my vice president dr. marshall who should report to us and he had a meeting with

the vice president at the white house and i think he should take the lead. >> i thought i was going to escape. >> no, you're not. >> let me tell you what you need to know. i didn't see the president, sasha, malia or the dog or the vice president. now you rks you don't want to hear anything. no, just for everyone else i was asked to come back and be part of the vice president's task force , information, fact finding and particularly gun violence. i think he had a series of meetings that week. i was there that friday. the group i was in

called "social innovators". a couple of things surprised me. there were very few people from the community there. there were a lot of people -- foundation people, media people. i'm not sure -- i can't remember. it was about 30 of us thank god and a big group you don't get anything done. i may have been one of the people from the urban areas so i guess my contribution was primarily that perspective, and probably the thing that i lent my voice to and what you're going to say. what brought us there was newtown and aurora and columbine but

however i think we agree that chicago and los angeles and new york and san francisco and the urban areas are just as important as those other shootings, so it was a very -- we had like three hours. when you have three hours don't have people introduce themselves for 45 minutes. that's a whole another story. in the time that we had to get work done was cut down but put a lot of ideas on the table. ours was not really to talk about gun control strategies or proposals. ours was to be -- what's the phrase they use? out of the box, to come up with innovative ideas that would be i guess the second wave or the next set of ideas

to be put forth, so we came up --l the group came up with them. actually a number of us came up with ideas, and my understanding they were voted on and this was taken back and put in the pot for future consideration. they promised to keep in touch with all of us. i think the one thing i did say that i got people -- and i do believe this personally. i think that we really have to change -- i mean a lot of us agree there is a gun culture, a culture of violence. my position is just the laws in of itself isn't going to change that. if you look at what we did with tobacco legislation came after we changed people's minds about tobacco, so therefore i think with my young people they come in believing they have to carry a gun.

they're wired to it. they're told they need a gun to survive. one of the favorite phrases is "i would rather be caught with it than without it". i can't ban them but have to change their mind in carrying a farm arm and that's what i have to do. >> >> in the long-term we need to change the way we think about firearms and i don't believe necessarily believe that the legislation will do that. however, that's where we're going first. you heard the president's proposals. i happen to agree with all of them but it's going to be a big fight. i am glad that i was to put the notion in people's heads you have to change the way people think about weapons much like tobacco. it's a huge industry and we took it on. tobacco made a lot of money for people. let me put it like this with the

young people i work with they see -- a lot of people see tobacco, smoking as a health risk they see carrying a firearm as a health risk so it's bad for their health if they carry a gun so if we get that going maybe we will have a real chance with this. being around a lot of nra people is fascinating but yeah it's that's about it ladies and gentlemen. thanks for asking. i am actually going back next week monday and tuesday. this is part of the faith base team that will work with a lot of ministers who are dealing with the white house but i will be back wednesday night for the meeting but we will see what happens. thanks for asking. >> thank you dr. marshall. commissioner kingsley. >> we applaud your fine work

dr. marshall and amen to everything that you said. as a seg way the commonwealth club of san francisco had a program this week on gun control issues in the state of california and san francisco, and our own -- our sergeant kelly john was there as a member of sfpd, and it was good to have somebody from law enforcement on that panel, and she did a terrific job. i also this month finished on behalf of the commission review offing our report. i wanted to let you know that and this is my third month so i don't know whether we're rotating quarterly or whether it's longer than that or whatever it is, but i don't want to deprive other commissioners if we're on a rotating basis that haven't done it, but i'm happy to continue otherwise.

>> anybody else like to do it next month? all yours for next month. >>i think lieutenant gracie has an idea of rotating quarterly. i'm not sure. >>i think commissioner turman indicated that at one point is interested. >> i did it for so long i'm off for the next years. >> commissioner turman had to leave to a different meeting and come back. you what happens when you're not here? you get it. commissioner. >> yes, i wanted to report back to the full commission. we heard about the tazer community meeting but i wanted to remind everyone there is a process that the commission is under going and look at supplying cip trained officers with tazers and part of that process began with the resolution the police commission passed in 2011 and a process with the community and having meetings so we're at

that stage now so we had a great meeting last night in the west edition and we had public comment. there was an exchange of ideas and someone came tonight and said they changed their mind so i lot of it is folks coming with open minds and exchanging information so that was great. i want to encourage folks watching and let you know about the next meeting. february 4 at the temple there and hard stop encourage you to be there on time and then at the opera house at the next meeting and i wanted to commend commissioner turman in his absence. he ran the meeting and people who are interested will learn more about the weapons from the police department's perspective and why they're needed and hear from the

community and i encourage folks to come out to you if this is of interest of you. >> i would like to ask a question about that. >> sure. >> was there a time limit on -- how did you deal with the comments from the public? did you put a time limit on what they could speak? >> so commissioner turman let folks know it's important that we had a small amount of time and folks wanted to be heard so there wasn't a specific time but the commissioner in a diplomatic and we got to the point and people got it and we had time for everybody that wanted to speak and there were times the chief was answering tough questions and we got a lot of positive feedback from the chief also to the fact he's open and folks said "we trust the chief

but have other concerns" and was a good forum. >> i thought it was a good meeting too. there were some speakers better than others. i will leave it at that but it gave me things to thought about. >> i just want to say to the public these are the meetings we had when we went out in the community to get people's perspective on the kind of chief we should have and actually because they're not agendized meetings and a quorum of commissioners they're more free flowing, not as timed and people should come out and say what they have to say. obviously being cognitive there are a lot of people that want to say something and it suits what you're trying to got and the input on tazers. i